My difficulty in convincing people is that it's hard to know what studies are correct and which aren't. I supposed you can find a study to support your side, whatever that is. Right now I'm trying to convince my church leaders that closing our doors for a year and then not allowing anyone without masks for almost another year was wrong and harmful - not because I want to be a troublemaker, but because they so far have not given me a definitive answer that they will not do the same thing again! I'm not medically trained nor do I have any other credentials. I'm just an average, churchgoing woman. They got their information and guidance from medical professionals, including a doctor that I think is either a specialist or head of a department or something like that. A high-up doctor with literally decades of experience and knowledge. How can I blame them for trusting his guidance over my comments and some study I got off the internet? And if mandates start up again this winter, of course they will listen to his guidance again. It's so frustrating!
Mo, the thing that astounded me re the churches & their almost universal “compliance” w/ every bit of it was that their “information & guidance” should’ve come from God, not fallen men, no matter WHAT their earthly credentials. And I say this as someone who is not religious & has doubts & questions about it (but w/ absolute values & morals based on it). I’d always respected & envied those that are religious. But the religious reaction to wu-flu was stunning to me because it did not seem that they believed what they all preach, that God is in control, come what may
Your fellow believers, including your church "leaders", believe medical professionals, including a doctor who, by default, admit they're incapable of treating this infection. On what basis would anyone trust a doctor who says he/she is incapable of treating a respiratory infection? Has that question been asked?
The "leaders" remain credulous and obedient, willing to force one medical intervention (snot pouches, which do nothing and are simply gross) on their flock while denying others. How degraded have the people of this country become? Give up their own liberty, demand others do the same. https://shethinksliberty.substack.com/p/the-absence-of-this-most-important
I don't think the issue is doctors saying they're "incapable of treating a respiratory infection." People are hospitalized and they're doing whatever it is they're doing to help them. (Though the withholding of certain meds has been a problem. But that's a bit separate from this issue.)
I think the sad fact is few people want to admit that we don't have a set cure for this. The V was supposed to be it. That's why it was pushed so hard. By now, it's clear that it has failed. I don't think anyone, medical or non-medical, is comfortable telling people, "None of these measures have helped." Maybe they don't want panic? Maybe they also can't bear to admit they were wrong because they don't have any other solutions? The old measures may not work but at least it looks like we're trying to do SOMETHING.
I don't know. All I know is there is nothing stopping from mandates being put back in place tomorrow, if the gov't and the "experts" say so. Whatever anyone thinks about it, people are used to trusting their medical professionals. That long held practice is not easily changed. People are going to go on doing what their med professionals tell them because they don't know what else to do. I don't see a way around that.
Mo, doctors are NOT doing everything they can to treat - they’re using the depopulation protocol of Remisdevir (causes multi-system organ failure) & vents instead of proven cheap therapeutics like hydroxy & Iver. It’s not a separate issue.
In history of the world there’s never been a cure for any respiratory cold or flu so those in charge knew these vax’s were nothing (see Birx’ admission in her new book).
And they pushed the vax hard as a depopulation agenda.
Maybe you’re not yet ready to face the global evil? That’s not a criticism, lots of people can’t wrap their heads around that yet
Covid is and always has been a disease that can be treated successfully - outside of hospitalization. There are many early treatment protocols that keep people out of hospitals which have been incentivized to kill people with their "treatment." When you consider that Drs. Fareed and Tyson had an early treatment protocol and were saving thousands of lives in CA by February *2020* you have to start asking why most doctors suddenly had no plan to treat a respiratory virus for the first time in history? No, just go home, rest and wait until it moves to the second phase of lung inflammation and micro-clotting and you can no longer breathe. That's what my FORMER PCP told me in September 2021 - she would not treat me if I got covid. She would not prescribe any of the early sequential multi-drug treatment protocols. It would be better for me to die than go against what her Board recommended, as Dr. Harvey Risch has said of doctors like her.
I understand your frustration with churches. I share it. How many times in the Bible are we commanded not to be afraid? This was designed as a pandemic of fear in order to get people to accept the experimental shots which now are killing and maiming more people than covid ever will. It's not about a virus and never has been.
Did your doctor say why she wouldn't treat you? I don't understand all these doctors going along with this and so few speaking out! I'm over 50 and I've never heard of doctors refusing to treat their own patients or to even see them. Are there a few jerks just out for money? Sure. But this was happening everywhere, all at once. WHY? It makes no sense. And now nobody's talking about it. Honestly, I feel a little more crazy now than I did in 2020-21 because everyone's gone back to (sort of) normal. Well, except for still masking in Chicago. Aside from that, no one, anywhere, is acknowledging anything that happened the past 2 years.
With this comment, you're making my point for me, Mo. I said that "doctors" are saying implicitly they can't treat a respiratory infection. We also know that Birdingmom's story reflects countless others -- a "doctor" who refused to treat her should she come down with this infection. That "doctor" reflects how many in this country ? who abided by the absurdity of no treatment until sick enough to require hospitalization. 𝑻𝒉𝒊𝒔 was the national "protocol".
Then, we had and still have church "leaders" who put the government and its edicts, "doctors" and their "expertise" before God. "Be afraid. Obey us. Mistrust your own body. Cover your face. Avoid gatherings." And on and on.
Mo, you're being far too easy on these church "leaders". They have failed so egregiously -- yours and so many across this country. They should be profoundly ashamed of themselves.
I think we are on the same page. I'm just trying to figure out what to do about it and how to move forward, without pretending it never happened. For the most part, from the politicians to the "experts" to the medical profession to businesses to churches to schools, there has been no acknowledgment that anything was done wrong. So there's nothing stopping it from happening again tomorrow. That is what we must prevent. I'm just trying to figure out how. I don't want to go through it again and I don't want to see other people treated that way again.
Thus, the gist of this article. These so called experts and medical professionals are morons. The people that still listen to them are also morons. When you can see what’s right in front of you, but still are willing to believe lies, you are a moron. So unfortunately you are correct, we are being lead by morons, and they very well may try and mask and lock people down again. I don’t think so many will comply if they do. The ones that will are the real morons.
I would like to hope it would be different this time. I know I would fight much harder. I masked for a while, though my situation is that I don't get out much anyway, so it was mainly to the grocery store. I think I masked early on at the laundromat. But it was so warm in there that I stopped pretty early. I remember slinking around, hiding behind machines, avoiding the workers and other customers. So stupid! Thankfully, neither customers nor employees harassed me, so I kept going freefaced!
It really says a lot that I was more welcome at my laundromat than at my church. I'm not saying the laundromat employees welcomed me or even smiled/looked at me. But at least they never bothered me about it, even though they had the signs.
I promise you this, and I'll say it publicly before the internet and before God: if my church or the church I've slowly started attending demand masks again, I will show up freefaced and force them to tell me to leave. I won't make a scene, but I will show up.
That is what I should have done from the day we reopened. I am ashamed that I was too much of a coward to do it then, when it counted.
You should ask your church if they took money from the government. Some churches did in exchange for following the covid rules, my little church didn't and we opened back up after six weeks, no masks, etc even here in Kommiefornia.
You know, that is a good point! I rarely think about this issue because I never hear it mentioned. I know there was money for companies and such, but I don't know how it worked. I wasn't sure if it even applied to churches. I'm not sure how to look it up.
I don't know how I could ask them that without it coming across as accusatory. How do you broach such a topic? "Hey, did our church take gov't $ in exchange for following the mandates?" Talk about awkward! I love my church. I don't want to leave at all, much less in a bad way.
I'll see if I can find the interview I listened to of a pastor discussing this. All financials of our churches have to be readily accessible to its congregants but you're right, that would be awkward if you don't have that kind of a relationship with the pastors or elders.
Oh, I think we also have access to that type of info. I'll see what I can find from my church. I didn't even think of it. I've never had any reason to look into that sort of stuff before. Thanks.
This fact of subjectivity, on both sides of the covid debate, is all over Twitter. You flock to the prominent accounts that champion the stance that aligns with yours, and maybe you scan a few of the research articles that people tweet about.
Also, with regard to medical professionals vs. the layperson: it's a little like arguing about wars and national security: the experts tend to be in the military, and they tend to be confident about what the military can do.
Well, that's why I want objective facts. I don't want subjectivity. But, again, it's hard to fully vet studies. I mean, it's not like you can personally count all these people and investigate each situation to see if it's fully factual. In the end, you have to trust that whoever did the study got things correct.
Cindi, I think you misread what Mo wrote. She's not stating that.
If I read her correctly, she's expressing frustration that it is impractical to run down every single assertion or finding made in every single study, and that at some point, one is obliged to trust (hope, presume, take on faith) that a given study was done properly and that the conclusion of the study was an honest attempt to evaluate the outcome, not merely a proclamation of the result the authors had in mind from the outset (as apparently too many are).
None of us can run down every single study for or against any of this idiocy, but the evidence - even starting to appear in legit medical lit & mainstream media to some extent - is becoming irrefutable that everything done was either incompetent or by diabolical design. The world abandoned 100+ years of viral knowledge & protocols in event of pandemic emergency for things heretofore unheard of & deeply damaging on every level - physically, mentally, emotionally, economically, societally, educationally, ad nauseum. IMO, there’s no room for pipe dreams about delusional altruistic motives by the global cabal that has created this
After all the discussion of original antigenic sin (or whatever we want to call it), we still see researchers apparently genuinely surprised when they find the vaccinated get infected more easily than the unvaccinated. I saw this only yesterday, reading a new Icelandic study that shows precisely this: https://thorsteinn.substack.com/p/new-study-from-iceland-shows-infection
Morons? Not sure of it. An interesting thing about this study is how they bundle together the unvaccinated and those who've received one shot only. Why? Someone commenting on my piece on this in the Daily Sceptic yesterday pointed out that if they had divided them up, and most probably finding an even bigger difference, they wouldn't have had their study accepted for publication. This doesn't sound unlikely. So why are they apparently genuinely surprised? Don't they know about OAS or ADE? Very unlikely. Those people do their homework. They simply have to pretend being surprised.
My difficulty in convincing people is that it's hard to know what studies are correct and which aren't. I supposed you can find a study to support your side, whatever that is. Right now I'm trying to convince my church leaders that closing our doors for a year and then not allowing anyone without masks for almost another year was wrong and harmful - not because I want to be a troublemaker, but because they so far have not given me a definitive answer that they will not do the same thing again! I'm not medically trained nor do I have any other credentials. I'm just an average, churchgoing woman. They got their information and guidance from medical professionals, including a doctor that I think is either a specialist or head of a department or something like that. A high-up doctor with literally decades of experience and knowledge. How can I blame them for trusting his guidance over my comments and some study I got off the internet? And if mandates start up again this winter, of course they will listen to his guidance again. It's so frustrating!
Mo, the thing that astounded me re the churches & their almost universal “compliance” w/ every bit of it was that their “information & guidance” should’ve come from God, not fallen men, no matter WHAT their earthly credentials. And I say this as someone who is not religious & has doubts & questions about it (but w/ absolute values & morals based on it). I’d always respected & envied those that are religious. But the religious reaction to wu-flu was stunning to me because it did not seem that they believed what they all preach, that God is in control, come what may
Your fellow believers, including your church "leaders", believe medical professionals, including a doctor who, by default, admit they're incapable of treating this infection. On what basis would anyone trust a doctor who says he/she is incapable of treating a respiratory infection? Has that question been asked?
The "leaders" remain credulous and obedient, willing to force one medical intervention (snot pouches, which do nothing and are simply gross) on their flock while denying others. How degraded have the people of this country become? Give up their own liberty, demand others do the same. https://shethinksliberty.substack.com/p/the-absence-of-this-most-important
I don't think the issue is doctors saying they're "incapable of treating a respiratory infection." People are hospitalized and they're doing whatever it is they're doing to help them. (Though the withholding of certain meds has been a problem. But that's a bit separate from this issue.)
I think the sad fact is few people want to admit that we don't have a set cure for this. The V was supposed to be it. That's why it was pushed so hard. By now, it's clear that it has failed. I don't think anyone, medical or non-medical, is comfortable telling people, "None of these measures have helped." Maybe they don't want panic? Maybe they also can't bear to admit they were wrong because they don't have any other solutions? The old measures may not work but at least it looks like we're trying to do SOMETHING.
I don't know. All I know is there is nothing stopping from mandates being put back in place tomorrow, if the gov't and the "experts" say so. Whatever anyone thinks about it, people are used to trusting their medical professionals. That long held practice is not easily changed. People are going to go on doing what their med professionals tell them because they don't know what else to do. I don't see a way around that.
Mo, doctors are NOT doing everything they can to treat - they’re using the depopulation protocol of Remisdevir (causes multi-system organ failure) & vents instead of proven cheap therapeutics like hydroxy & Iver. It’s not a separate issue.
In history of the world there’s never been a cure for any respiratory cold or flu so those in charge knew these vax’s were nothing (see Birx’ admission in her new book).
And they pushed the vax hard as a depopulation agenda.
Maybe you’re not yet ready to face the global evil? That’s not a criticism, lots of people can’t wrap their heads around that yet
I did state the issue of meds being withheld. Please do not condescend to me like I'm stupid or like I'm a child. Thank you.
You’re naive, I think, if you believe whoever did “studies” must be right. And you said meds were a separate issue from doctors doing their best
Covid is and always has been a disease that can be treated successfully - outside of hospitalization. There are many early treatment protocols that keep people out of hospitals which have been incentivized to kill people with their "treatment." When you consider that Drs. Fareed and Tyson had an early treatment protocol and were saving thousands of lives in CA by February *2020* you have to start asking why most doctors suddenly had no plan to treat a respiratory virus for the first time in history? No, just go home, rest and wait until it moves to the second phase of lung inflammation and micro-clotting and you can no longer breathe. That's what my FORMER PCP told me in September 2021 - she would not treat me if I got covid. She would not prescribe any of the early sequential multi-drug treatment protocols. It would be better for me to die than go against what her Board recommended, as Dr. Harvey Risch has said of doctors like her.
I understand your frustration with churches. I share it. How many times in the Bible are we commanded not to be afraid? This was designed as a pandemic of fear in order to get people to accept the experimental shots which now are killing and maiming more people than covid ever will. It's not about a virus and never has been.
Did your doctor say why she wouldn't treat you? I don't understand all these doctors going along with this and so few speaking out! I'm over 50 and I've never heard of doctors refusing to treat their own patients or to even see them. Are there a few jerks just out for money? Sure. But this was happening everywhere, all at once. WHY? It makes no sense. And now nobody's talking about it. Honestly, I feel a little more crazy now than I did in 2020-21 because everyone's gone back to (sort of) normal. Well, except for still masking in Chicago. Aside from that, no one, anywhere, is acknowledging anything that happened the past 2 years.
With this comment, you're making my point for me, Mo. I said that "doctors" are saying implicitly they can't treat a respiratory infection. We also know that Birdingmom's story reflects countless others -- a "doctor" who refused to treat her should she come down with this infection. That "doctor" reflects how many in this country ? who abided by the absurdity of no treatment until sick enough to require hospitalization. 𝑻𝒉𝒊𝒔 was the national "protocol".
Then, we had and still have church "leaders" who put the government and its edicts, "doctors" and their "expertise" before God. "Be afraid. Obey us. Mistrust your own body. Cover your face. Avoid gatherings." And on and on.
Mo, you're being far too easy on these church "leaders". They have failed so egregiously -- yours and so many across this country. They should be profoundly ashamed of themselves.
I think we are on the same page. I'm just trying to figure out what to do about it and how to move forward, without pretending it never happened. For the most part, from the politicians to the "experts" to the medical profession to businesses to churches to schools, there has been no acknowledgment that anything was done wrong. So there's nothing stopping it from happening again tomorrow. That is what we must prevent. I'm just trying to figure out how. I don't want to go through it again and I don't want to see other people treated that way again.
Thus, the gist of this article. These so called experts and medical professionals are morons. The people that still listen to them are also morons. When you can see what’s right in front of you, but still are willing to believe lies, you are a moron. So unfortunately you are correct, we are being lead by morons, and they very well may try and mask and lock people down again. I don’t think so many will comply if they do. The ones that will are the real morons.
I would like to hope it would be different this time. I know I would fight much harder. I masked for a while, though my situation is that I don't get out much anyway, so it was mainly to the grocery store. I think I masked early on at the laundromat. But it was so warm in there that I stopped pretty early. I remember slinking around, hiding behind machines, avoiding the workers and other customers. So stupid! Thankfully, neither customers nor employees harassed me, so I kept going freefaced!
It really says a lot that I was more welcome at my laundromat than at my church. I'm not saying the laundromat employees welcomed me or even smiled/looked at me. But at least they never bothered me about it, even though they had the signs.
I promise you this, and I'll say it publicly before the internet and before God: if my church or the church I've slowly started attending demand masks again, I will show up freefaced and force them to tell me to leave. I won't make a scene, but I will show up.
That is what I should have done from the day we reopened. I am ashamed that I was too much of a coward to do it then, when it counted.
You should ask your church if they took money from the government. Some churches did in exchange for following the covid rules, my little church didn't and we opened back up after six weeks, no masks, etc even here in Kommiefornia.
You know, that is a good point! I rarely think about this issue because I never hear it mentioned. I know there was money for companies and such, but I don't know how it worked. I wasn't sure if it even applied to churches. I'm not sure how to look it up.
I don't know how I could ask them that without it coming across as accusatory. How do you broach such a topic? "Hey, did our church take gov't $ in exchange for following the mandates?" Talk about awkward! I love my church. I don't want to leave at all, much less in a bad way.
I'll see if I can find the interview I listened to of a pastor discussing this. All financials of our churches have to be readily accessible to its congregants but you're right, that would be awkward if you don't have that kind of a relationship with the pastors or elders.
Oh, I think we also have access to that type of info. I'll see what I can find from my church. I didn't even think of it. I've never had any reason to look into that sort of stuff before. Thanks.
This fact of subjectivity, on both sides of the covid debate, is all over Twitter. You flock to the prominent accounts that champion the stance that aligns with yours, and maybe you scan a few of the research articles that people tweet about.
Also, with regard to medical professionals vs. the layperson: it's a little like arguing about wars and national security: the experts tend to be in the military, and they tend to be confident about what the military can do.
Yeah like not seeing the fall of Kabul in hours, much less ever.
Well, that's why I want objective facts. I don't want subjectivity. But, again, it's hard to fully vet studies. I mean, it's not like you can personally count all these people and investigate each situation to see if it's fully factual. In the end, you have to trust that whoever did the study got things correct.
Whoever did the studies got things correct???
Cindi, I think you misread what Mo wrote. She's not stating that.
If I read her correctly, she's expressing frustration that it is impractical to run down every single assertion or finding made in every single study, and that at some point, one is obliged to trust (hope, presume, take on faith) that a given study was done properly and that the conclusion of the study was an honest attempt to evaluate the outcome, not merely a proclamation of the result the authors had in mind from the outset (as apparently too many are).
None of us can run down every single study for or against any of this idiocy, but the evidence - even starting to appear in legit medical lit & mainstream media to some extent - is becoming irrefutable that everything done was either incompetent or by diabolical design. The world abandoned 100+ years of viral knowledge & protocols in event of pandemic emergency for things heretofore unheard of & deeply damaging on every level - physically, mentally, emotionally, economically, societally, educationally, ad nauseum. IMO, there’s no room for pipe dreams about delusional altruistic motives by the global cabal that has created this
100%, Cindi.
I completely agree.
I just thought you might have misinterpreted Mo's point.
After all the discussion of original antigenic sin (or whatever we want to call it), we still see researchers apparently genuinely surprised when they find the vaccinated get infected more easily than the unvaccinated. I saw this only yesterday, reading a new Icelandic study that shows precisely this: https://thorsteinn.substack.com/p/new-study-from-iceland-shows-infection
Morons? Not sure of it. An interesting thing about this study is how they bundle together the unvaccinated and those who've received one shot only. Why? Someone commenting on my piece on this in the Daily Sceptic yesterday pointed out that if they had divided them up, and most probably finding an even bigger difference, they wouldn't have had their study accepted for publication. This doesn't sound unlikely. So why are they apparently genuinely surprised? Don't they know about OAS or ADE? Very unlikely. Those people do their homework. They simply have to pretend being surprised.
It's good to be a janitor.
The MedPage Today illustration is silly: a blizzard of coronavirus falling from the heavens?